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1 day ago
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Estimated reading time: 17 minutes
How do I cope with other people putting their expectations on how soon I should be getting dates? Some of my friends act as if getting dates is as easy as going to buy something at the grocery store. It bothers me. It’s not that easy from my experience.
In the last year, I started rock climbing. I met a lot of people at the climbing gym. Most of them were other men. The few women I met were not single. As I have learned reading this blog, expanding my social circle is a good step towards improving my dating life. I still decided to occasionally checkout other climbing gyms with a more balanced gender ratio.
I also started yoga 8 or 9 weeks ago. I have not had any meaningful conversations with anybody there yet. I know the stereotypes about the guy who goes to yoga classes to do approaches. Even though I genuinely enjoy yoga, I assume some people in the class could have suspicions about my true intentions. So I keep to myself, at least for now.
I think getting dates could be easier if I had a bigger and more diverse social circle. I am thus doing what I can to expand my social circle with hobbies. It will take a long time to get there, but it’s the only solution I can see. I tried getting results “fast” by doing “night game” and “day game”. “Pick up” was a fun challenge, but I don’t think that’s how humans are meant to create bonds and develop relationships.
Most people in my life can’t relate to the challenges I am facing. It’s frustrating. None of them tried pick up and realised it’s not the real solution. None of them tried expanding their social circle to improve their dating life. Some of them met their significant other in school when having a diverse social circle was a given. And yet, they talk to me as if getting dates should be easy. I think it’s a case of the hot hand fallacy. They met someone largely because of luck and favourable circumstances they did not intentionally create. But they give advice as if their success was largely from competence. I don’t have those favourable circumstances and have to create them from scratch, which takes time. I give them credit for taking action on the opportunities they had. However, creating the opportunities themselves is a different ball game.
I am open to being wrong. Maybe it should be easy to get dates now and not wait as my social circle expands. I just want peace of mind.
Taking My Time
This is a matter of crossed wires, TMT, because while I understand what you’re saying and you’re not entirely wrong, I think you’re missing a few important parts of the process. And more to the point, I’m kind of wondering if maybe there’s something else going on here.
Let’s start with the obvious part: I think you’re projecting some of your frustration on your friends and misunderstanding things. You’re correct that, yes, meeting people is often a matter of luck and favorable circumstance. What you’re missing is that luck isn’t random, nor are favorable circumstances a matter of pure chance.
This is going to sound like something of a random digression but stick with me for a second. I’ve been re-reading one of my favorite book series from my childhood lately: the Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander. In the fourth book, Taran Wanderer, the eponymous lead – a foundling raised by the sage Dallben – goes off to try to learn about his family, in part because he hopes to discover he might be nobility and thus able to woo and wed his friend, the princess Eilonwy.
One of the people he meets over the course of his journey, is Llonio, a man who seems to have the most extraordinary luck. He built a paddock without livestock and then meets Taran, who is leading a herd of sheep after the death of their shepherd. If Llonio stumbles over a rock in his field, it turns out to be perfect for turning into a mill to grind grain. Random plants seem to be precisely what he needs at any particular moment, bits of cloth or leather end up being perfect for some task at hand… it seems like Llonio leads an unusually charmed life.
Except… he doesn’t. It’s not that Llonio is especially lucky. The secret to his luck is, simply, that he is always on the lookout, always ready to make use of what he finds and simply knows how to apply his knowledge and skill to make the most of anything he encounters. He’s not lucky so much as he’s prepared, observant and ready to take advantage of what opportunities are presented to him.
That’s the thing about luck: it tends to happen most often to people who are on the lookout for it. The luckiest folks are the people who put themselves into fortune’s path and are prepared to make the most of the opportunities when they find them.
I’m a living example of this. I’ve had a number of extraordinary opportunities in my life, met some incredible people and had a whole host of absurd and wonderful adventures… and from the distance it can look like luck. But most of it was simply a matter of making my own luck. I got jobs, even a position on a very popular podcast, because I decided to start going to a regular meetup for people who wanted to hang out and draw. From there, I made friends, who introduced me to other friends that I also befriended, and that network meant that when opportunities came around, they decided to offer those opportunities to me, because they knew me and thought “hey, I should tell Harris about this” or “he’d be a good fit for this.” Was this luck? Sure… but it was luck that happened because I laid groundwork to be lucky. It may not have been my intent, but I was in the right place at the right time because I had put myself there.
Hell, the same thing applies to my love life. I met the woman who ultimately led to my becoming Dr. NerdLove because I chose to go out to an event that I thought might be fun and where I might meet some folks. And I did… including a young woman who was quietly sketching Death from Sandman. That gave me an opening to say “hi”, and get to know her. That wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t chosen to go out and see what happened. Hell, I met the woman who would eventually become Dr. Mrs. The NerdLove by random chance, but we became friends because I offered her my seat and we made small talk and realized we had a lot of interests in common. Random probability put us in the same room, but it was my taking action that started the relationship.
The point of all of this is to say that while it’s true that your friends may have met their partners through luck and circumstance, it wasn’t just a roll of the dice. It’s not as though their partners crashed through the ceiling into their living rooms or got hurled through a window at them. They got lucky – as it were – because they put themselves in the position to get lucky and when the opportunity arose, they took their shot. Some shots miss, but, as The Great One has said: you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
That’s the thing about most PUA tactics like “day game” and the rest: most of it is ultimately just taking a shotgun approach: throw enough lead out and you’ll hit something. They’re taking shots and playing the odds. They’re playing them badly, in a way that’s profoundly inefficient at best, and if they succeed, it’s usually despite themselves… but they are playing.
Which brings me to my second point: you’re not getting lucky because you’re not actually creating those opportunities or circumstances. You think you’re laying the groundwork, but what I’m seeing is mostly a lot of cat-hoovering. It’s a little like an author who keeps doing ‘research’ for the book they want to write, or a screenwriter who keeps making vision boards and reading Story and Save The Cat, but never actually puts words on the page. It feels like progress, but it’s really just spinning your wheels.
You talk about trying to build these social circles and meeting people but I can’t help but notice what you’re not doing: you’re not asking people out. Hell, you’re not even talking to some people. You’ve been going to your yoga classes for months at this point but haven’t even so much as said “hello”. Yeah, there’re dudes who go to yoga simply to hit on women, but there’s a vast difference between the guy who thinks the yoga studio is a sex ATM and making small talk with the other attendees. Nobody’s going to think it’s weird if one of the regulars actually, y’know, makes an effort to say hi and make friends. Nor, for that matter, are they going to think you’re being a creep if you talk to someone and say “hey, I’m really enjoying talking to you; is it cool if I add you on WhatsApp?”
People’ll have their guard up if you roll around the room like a horny shark, chatting up the ladies and only the ladies. A guy who’s being social and friendly and getting to know folks is just someone who’s trying to make friends.
Part of the point of talking with people at these is to make friends and foster those friendships. As you do, and they get to know you and you get to know them, there’ll be more opportunities for fortune to strike. They may know of an opening in their company when you need a job. Or they may be throwing a party and invite you… where you very well may meet someone incredible. But none of that can happen unless you actually start taking direct action, not just endless rounds of “laying the groundwork” or “Creating the circumstances”. There have been a multitude of opportunities that’ve passed you by because you were too busy looking at the wrong thing.
The benefit of playing the long game is giving people the opportunity to get to know you, connect with you and appreciate your uniqueness. You’re not playing the long game if you don’t actually play.
And honestly, I kind of wonder if you’re not taking those opportunities because you’re afraid to take your shot. It sounds like you’re trying to avoid rejection or embarrassment more than actually meeting people, and that’s never going to work. Getting lucky requires action to go with the preparation. You don’t need to wait until you think you’ve got the perfect moment, and you definitely don’t want to wait until you think there’s a 100% chance of success. No amount of luck comes without risk; part of getting lucky is to look for moments when the odds are more in your favor than not… even if it’s only a 49/51 split.
If you are chatting with someone, catch a vibe and say “hey, I’m doing $COOL_THING next week, and I think you’d really enjoy it. Would you care to go with me?”, nobody is going to think you’re being a sex pest, doubly so if you take “No, thank you” or “I’m busy” with good grace and just continue to be friendly and social. This is the most normal and organic way of meeting people, and I can guarantee that it’s how your friends met the majority of their partners.
Similarly, you aren’t going to be getting lucky if you don’t create opportunities for other people help you get lucky. Your friends can’t say “hey, I know someone you should meet” if they don’t know you’re single and looking, any more than they can offer you a job if they don’t know you’re on the market for one. They can’t invite you to do stuff if they don’t know you want to hang out with them. You have to play your part in this.
I think you’re well past the point of “creating favorable opportunities” and into procrastination. It’s not an either/or situation; you can take action andput yourself in fortune’s path at the same time. But none of it can start until you stop “preparing” and start doing. Until then… you’re just going to be missing shots because you never even tried to take them in the first place.
Good luck.
Howdy Dr. NerdLove,
I have gotten myself in a bit of a feedback loop and have, quite honestly, been in a version of that same loop on some level my whole life.
I guess starting with the background bits makes the most sense. I’m a 35 year old straight man. I have a somewhat stable career doing something I enjoy, nothing lavish, but bills get paid and I can go out a few times a month to be social. I even have a decent sized social circle, particularly for my age bracket.
Now, the conga line of catches. I grew up with a drunkard for a dad, no rhyme or reason what would cause a blow up, always a toss up if it was my mom or I it was directed towards.
The situation got better, and my remaining family are still close, I was loved, and I was lucky. I don’t want to add an unnecessary sob story to justify things, but I honestly took a long time and a not-insignificant amount of therapy to even admit I got a bit fucked up by the experience.
I people please, play mediator, and give of myself well past the point the well has run dry. Saying no used to cause me physical discomfort. Suffice it to say this did not set myself up well to push back against bullies or self-advocate in any meaningful way.
But still, I found my people, found a place I felt at home and honed my ability to turn down a request time to time.
Now, preamble over, question finally. I never dated in any serious sense. Rock bottom self-worth and being a doormat through high-school and college didn’t interfere with friendships, but it isn’t a recipe for relationship success. That same lack of success played to reinforce that self-image.
Present day, I would feel terrible subjecting someone to deal with a potential partner learning how to exist in a relationship, when they likely put in the time to learn those lesson already. I don’t know what my preferences are or if I have any, and I am well aware that’s a messed-up thing to put on someone as well.
Could be just me being a touch desperate, but as I try to meet people and find a person, I can feel my brain try to mold myself into a shape they might want. I know nothing good comes from that, but the well-worn grooves are the easiest to fall back into. I don’t have any illusion a relationship will fix me, because honestly, I don’t think I’m broken. I am, however, utterly in a reinforcing loop. So what do I do next? Who Do You Want Me To Be?
I hope you’re still in therapy, WDYWMTB, because it sounds to me like you’re still dealing with some issues stemming from your abuse.
Most people know about the “fight or flight” response, but that’s not the whole picture. It’s more accurate to say that it’s “fight, flight, freeze or fawn”. Fawn is an especially common response to an ongoing situation; you’re trying to defuse tension, avoid being a target or de-escalate a situation by playing to the other person. This is why, for example, people may laugh or smile, even when they’re deeply uncomfortable or feel threatened; they’re trying to de-escalate things until they can get away. And, like a lot of trauma responses, these can outlast their usefulness.
A big part of what you describe as people pleasing – that whole “being a doormat” and “molding yourself into a shape they may want” is a fawn response. You aren’t in the situation where you needed to make yourself small and harmless to survive anymore, but your brain is still trying to protect you from danger. It’s just now the danger is theoretical and imagined, not actual.
And I think part of the problem is that you don’t seem to recognize that these behaviors are going to apply across the board. You say that these behaviors aren’t a good recipe for relationship success… but friendships are relationships. And friendships are often a place where this sort of behavior can play a part.
How much time do you spend minimizing yourself or making yourself small or pretending you don’t have needs or wants because you’re afraid that if you express a need to your friends, they’d dump you? How much time do you spend going along to get along and not actually suggesting things you’d prefer to do? What sort of behavior do you put up with in the name of “keeping the friendship”, even if it makes you feel awful about yourself?
Hell, how many friends do you have that you might more accurately call “frenemies”?
Now, maybe you’re lucky and you’ve fallen in with good people who don’t take deliberate advantage of your lack of boundaries. But that doesn’t mean that they’re not still walking all over you; it just means that they don’t realize that’s what’s going on. You’re making yourself less in hopes of not upsetting them or risking the loss of their friendship. That’s still a trauma response.
So, for that matter, are your feelings about why you can’t date people. When you say “I would feel terrible subjecting someone to deal with a potential partner learning how to exist in a relationship, when they likely put in the time to learn those lesson already,” you’re doing a fawn response; you’re behaving as though you’re going to upset them and so you’re trying to make nice before it can even happen. You’re making yourself into a doormat for people you don’t even know exist in part because you’re worried you might upset them by existing around them.
Here’s the thing: if your friends are good people, who care for you and respect you? Then that’s actually the best time to start advocating for yourself and establishing and enforcing boundaries. People who actually care for you want you to have boundaries. They want you to stand up for yourself. They want you to prioritize yourself for once.
So too do the people who you would want to date. They aren’t going to see your dating them as an inconvenience or something terrible. What they want is a partner who’s not going to wilt at the first sign of pushback any more than they want someone who’s going to be domineering and demand control under all circumstances. Similarly, anyone worth dating isn’t going to be upset if you need occasional reassurance or a confidence boost. They just don’t want to have to reassure you constantly or be your emotional crutch.
The people who are going to be the most upset if you do tell them no are the ones who rely on your being a doormat. But having boundaries and self-esteem are precisely what push those people away.
You say that you don’t know what you want or have any preferences. Well, I promise that you do; you’ve just never let yourself feel or express them. You’ve gotten used to having to sublimate them to your father and it became easier to pretend you didn’t have them at all.
Just as importantly: you’re allowed to not know what you want and to want to explore so that you can find out. You’re allowed to prioritize dating for the sake of dating and learning about yourself; just be clear about what you do and don’t have to offer the people you’re dating. You aren’t in a position to date someone seriously or make a long-term commitment, so don’t offer it or agree to it if someone else does. Someone who tries to push you towards it and doesn’t respect your “no” is someone who’s demonstrating that they’re not someone you should be dating in the first place.
Here’s the thing: part of dating is learning about yourself and what you want. You may think you know what you want or need, but often the operative word is think. Sometimes what you think you want and what you actually want are very different things… and you often won’t know until you’ve experienced one or the other. Some things are great in theory, but less so in practice. Some people think they want a harem of women, but realize very quickly that non-monogamy or polyamory is not for them at all. The inverse is true as well; a lot of people look for monogamy because they’ve been taught that’s what they’re supposed to want, but it doesn’t work for them at all.
Yes, it can be crushing to find out that the person you got engaged to realized that they don’t want to marry, or the person you hope to start a family with discovered that they don’t actually want kids. But part of the way you avoid these situations is to not treat every relationship like it’s going to be your last. You are perfectly welcome to date casually for a while, without expectation of long-term commitment, while you figure things out. You just need to be willing to commit to that, not to give in to what you think other people want in the name of “making it work”.
But that can’t really happen until you are better able to say “no”, to advocate for your own interests and well-being and to establish and maintain solid boundaries. And that should really be your priority. It’ll make a difference in all of your relationships – platonic and romantic.
Working with a therapist, especially a trauma-informed therapist will be an important part of this. Treating this as a trauma response instead of a quirk or “personality flaw” is likely to have a better result. You may also want to look into some books on the topic; The Gift Of Imperfection by Brené Brown, The Art of Giving and Receiving by Betty Martin and Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up’s Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents by Nina W. Brown might be some good starting points for you.
Take some time to deal with the trauma as trauma, learn how to stand up for yourself and be your own best and most zealous advocate. It’ll be the best decision you’ve ever made for yourself.
Good luck.
